She Didn’t Even See Me

I got mail from the Child Support Division.

I cried.

I opened the mail while I was in the car and burst into tears.

I am just literally at my wits end with this entire thing. Three months now, three months Mr. Attorney Man and I have been chasing this issue around from office to office, the courthouse and back, only to get a new order approved, sent to the Child Support Division, and have it entered wrong again.


This is me talking to Frisbee Boy’s Mom
Allow me to give you a close up view (it was too hard to edit the pic in the screenshot). The pink form is the order from the courthouse, it’s what I walked away with when I left court last month. The white copy is the way that the Child Support office entered it into their system.
Do you see what they did here?

The Child Support office took order from the courthouse, the pink one, and then they entered into their system with the “other” category combined with the “current child support,” which is what you can see on the white copy. Why does that matter? Because the “other” category isn’t my money. It’s money that pays off the kids medical expenses and is currently being intercepted and taken by the state as reimbursement for my kids being on medicaid. Why does it matter if they combine them? Because child support is counted as income when I apply for benefits, the “other” category is not. When state benefit departments check with the Child Support office to see how much I am getting in child support, they are getting a number that is more than double what my court order is actually for. By doubling my income on paper (with money that I don’t even get), it cuts me off of state benefits.

I cannot even believe this.
I called the head of the Child Support office and was put on hold for ten minutes before the boss guy hung up on me. I called back 6 times, got no answer and eventually that same wonderful caseworker from last time called me back and basically told me that if I got a better job, then I wouldn’t need to worry about petty stuff like this.

I have four jobs bitch.

Over the course of the last three months I have made more phone calls, office visits, and had more conversations with state employees than I would have ever expected to have in my entire lifetime, and each time I’m told the same thing “I can’t help you, I don’t have time to help you,” and “if you got a better job or worked a little harder then you wouldn’t need to worry about your benefits.”
So what do I do? I call Mr. Attorney Man who tells me he will call them because “people will listen to me.”

Now I know Mr. Attorney Man is just referencing the fact that his law degree can do a lot more damage than my lack of one, but it perfectly brings to light the underlying issue; they don’t think I am anyone important.

(That’s sarcasm about the beer & welfare check, in case you didn’t catch that…)
And how does that make me feel?


Sad because it feels like all the other times when my life was completely falling apart and no one cared enough to help me. Like when my own family didn’t value me enough to help me escape my marriage or when the police ignored my pleas for help and I got raped.

It brings back every moment in my life when I was not worth the efforts of others, because in their eyes I was no one important.

And how does that make me feel?
Angry actually.
Because I’m not a nobody. 
But they don’t see that.
To them I’m just another girl on welfare. I’m the girl who cleans the homes of people with “real” careers. I’m the girl whose husband left her, the single mom living under the poverty line. I’m just another person looking to suck the system dry. 
To them I’m nothing more than the information on my application.
And I could tell them. I could tell them that I spend most of my week working on my nonprofit, a career that will literally save lives. Would that be a little more respectable? If I tell someone that my career saves lives, would that make me someone important? Maybe, so maybe I could tell them that.
But I don’t.
What if I tell them that I write for companies that have millions upon millions of readers? If they knew that I have fans, followers, and readers, would that make me someone important? Maybe if I told them that you are all here, that you like to hear the things I have to say, maybe then they would want to listen to me. Maybe I should tell them that.
But I won’t.
I won’t for the same reason that I still list “house cleaner” in the job application line of any forms that I fill out. 
I do it because I’m finally fine being nothing but what the person in front of me is able to see in me.
I do it because I no longer feel like I need a label that signifies importance, because the only labels that should matter are the one’s I give myself.
And it hasn’t always been like that.
I wasn’t always fine with it and I still have moments when I’m not, but moments are fading and they too shall pass.
The other day I found myself trying to explain to that lovely caseworker that the order was entered wrong and what I heard next was “well Missy, maybe if you just got a better job then you wouldn’t have to worry about petty details like this. Did you even go to college? I shouldn’t even be wasting my time talking to you because this probably isn’t even anything you will be able to understand.” For a moment I thought about saying “Do you have any idea what I’ve been through? Do you have any idea what I’m doing because of it? Do you know that I’m trying as hard as I can to start a career out of a nonprofit that saves lives? Would you consider that a better job? Is that a little bit more respectable than being a housekeeper? Would that give me enough credibility to warrant a logical conversation with you? Because I’m working really hard to get this organization up and running and in fact, I’m pretty much in college right now, learning my trade and paving my future. Is that acceptable enough for you?”
But I didn’t. 
Because she shouldn’t need a reason to treat me like a human being.
She has no right to judge me.
My parents did a lot of things wrong, but in one aspect they did a lot of things right. I did not grow up in a poor family, my parents did quite well for themselves. We grew up in a good part of town and they never wanted us to think that our lives were the norm, so they pushed us into a lot of volunteer and missions work. We were not only exposed to, but also immersed in, a lot of things that caused me to really understand how situations do not make a person and that circumstances do not determine worth.
For those of you who haven’t read my past posts, I’ve been on quite a few missions trips. As much as I would like to think that I was doing something good, the reality of the situation is that I gained so much more than I ever put in. 
I will never forget one family in particular. It was an elderly couple and they lived in the hills of the Appalachian mountains. I don’t know if you are aware of the demographics and statistics of that area, but they aren’t good. In fact 20/20 just ran a special called “Children of The Mountains” in which they documented exactly what I saw. A poverty rate of 3 times the national average, the shortest lifespan in the country, many people who aren’t educated past elementary school, children birthing children, and a medical system that has completely failed the the members of Appalachian society. 
Do you know why it’s like that? 
As one statistical analyst said “it’s because they go largely unnoticed by the rest of the nation. No one even knows they are up there because they are considered disposable.”
I’ve been all over the country on many different missions trips. I went down after hurricane Katrina and while it was devastating, it was pretty much what I was expecting. But when I was dropped in Appalachia, I was floored. FLOORED. People were living on the side of the mountains, in little shacks with no running water and no electricity. The house I was working on, it had no roof. 

That doesn’t even make it a house. 

The family? Two senior citizens raising their two year old granddaughter. I’ll never forget that little girl because she brought reality to the phrase “hair as white as snow.” 
I’ll never forget that family because despite their lack of education, toothless smiles, and 3rd world living conditions, they wanted nothing more than to make us happy while we were there. The grandfather was so old he could barely walk, but he stood outside a majority of our days asking if we needed anything and trying to help out where he could. He truly had nothing to give, but would offer whatever he could find.

Homeowner in the plaid shirt holding his granddaughter, his wife to the left with the white shirt and necklace

That was a hard trip, physically and mentally. The family was so poor that I would give them my lunch everyday. I knew that back at the work camp base I would get dinner, but them, I wasn’t sure when they would eat again. In fact when I left, I left my entire suitcase and all it’s contents behind, but what I took with me was so much more.
The last day we were there they ordered us a pizza.
Eating that pizza was one of the most humbling experiences of my life because I knew how much that cost them. It cost them the fact they probably wouldn’t eat for a few days after we left. It cost them the fact that they didn’t have toilet paper. It cost them so many sacrifices and yet the whole time my crew and I sat there eating this pizza, choking it down because we were trying so hard to choke back our tears, they sat there smiling.

Notice the homeowner on his front porch watching us eat 
They didn’t eat, they refused to take a bite, but with each bite we took, their smiles grew larger.
They were happy to be able to give something to someone else. They were proud that they were able to show us what we meant to them. They gave up so much, because they wanted to show us what we meant to them. 
They wanted to show us our worth and in turn, they showed me theirs.
Worth these days has become so wrapped up in money, and titles, and fame, and things that we have mistakenly placed a ridiculous amount of value on.
Would the world really be a better place if it were filled only with rich celebrities and egotistical sports stars? If we eliminated everyone that didn’t meet the criteria of societal worth, would we really be in a better place? 
Do compassion and humanity mean nothing anymore? Is self worth and your ability to contribute to the world really able to be quantified in dollar signs and letters after your name?
Every day people walk around and turn their noses up at people they don’t feel are worth as much for no other reason than the face the they feel the other person isn’t living a life as worthy as theirs.

They are no better than a modern day, less murderous version of Hitler. What would Auschwitz look like in 2015? Would we grab all the people who we don’t think have much worth, lock them up, and then have them fill out an application to get out?

“What amount is currently in your savings account?”
“What college did you graduate from?”
“What is your job title?”
“Do you come from a wealthy family?”
“What zip code do you live in?”

Would you get a free pass if you were a doctor or a lawyer? Had more than one college degree? Were set to inherit a trust fund?

Who is judging these applications? Who is deciding how valuable a person is? How do we know what someone is worth on paper?

We don’t.

If you ever got the chance to sit down with Mr. Attorney Man, he will tell you that besides the safety of the me and the kids, the main reason that I choose to write anonymously is that I don’t ever again want to be in the spotlight. Over the course of the last year I’ve turned down multiple talk show offers in regards to this blog, because I don’t want to be in the spotlight. I always tell Mr. Attorney Man “hey, I’ll send you, but I don’t want to go!” I don’t want the fake friends and the pats on the back. I don’t want to have to try and figure out if people like me for me, or if they like me because of my name. I don’t want people thinking that I am “someone” just because I suddenly have a different title than “house cleaner.” I’ve been used enough for one lifetime and the only people who I want surrounding me are people who love basic Eden; no labels, no titles, no frills, just me.
I am the same Eden whether I am cleaning houses, writing for 15 million readers, or writing “executive director” on nonprofit forms. The title doesn’t make me, I make me.
So the Child Support Division doesn’t think I’m anyone important and while I want to give this woman a reason to listen to me that is more than “please help me, I need help,” I’m not going to give it to her because she doesn’t deserve it, and I deserve better.
My apparent lack of worth, that is not a problem with me. That is a problem with her.
If you truly can find no value in someone, it’s because you simply aren’t looking hard enough.
I mean hello, I even complimented my parents in this post. 
When you judge the worth of another, you are really judging the worth of yourself, because what you see in people, is only a reflection of how hard you are willing to look.
Circumstances make a lifestyle, but characteristics make a person. 
So Child Support doesn’t care to see me for who I am and yes, that makes me sad, but not for me, but for them. Because at the end of the day, at the end of my life, I really saw this world and all the amazing people that are in it. And them, over there, they only saw what they wanted to see and what they saw, it wasn’t much.
Just like Hitler, you can’t simply write off people that you don’t think matter, just because you don’t think they matter.
We all matter. 
Regardless of the skin we are in, the shape that we are, the number in our bank account, or the degrees hanging on our wall; we all matter, we all have worth.

The Child Support caseworker I’ve been dealing with, she had no right to talk to me the way she did. She has no right to judge me in the same way that she isn’t allowed to throw racist comments at me or judge me by my gender, because I am more than what she thinks she sees.

Success and value are not one in the same, they are two separate and unique entities, each worthy in their own right.

So I’m not as successful as the caseworker would like me to be, but I would have to say that neither is she, because while she may be surrounded by her desk, she is blind beyond it’s view.

At the end of the day, at the end of your life, nothing matters but what you did with that life. The value of your actions do not lie within a degree, a title, or a bank account, they lie only in what you did with what you had.

A man is not made worthy by what he has, but rather by what he is willing to do with it, because worth does not come from what you have, value comes from who you are.

**If you want to see how the mission trip house turned out, click here. **

You may also like


  • Anonymous
    March 23, 2015 at 11:29 am

    Do you record all these phone conversations, the hang ups, the insults (work more, to solve your problem) All their failings recorded will give you power, to either complain higher up, or threaten to go to the press, as they are failing you and your children. Threats to go to the press, are taken seriously as they don't want to be embarrassed publicly. Just a thought, its what I would do. I have a free download on my phone, that can record both incoming and outgoing calls, its worth looking into. Rose x

  • Mzfuzz
    March 23, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    AAAAAAAAAGH! Yeah, this is beginning to look punitive. Not cool!!!!!!!!! I see your point about wanting Ms. Social Services to treat you like a human being because that's what you are and what you deserve….But I'm not sure that means you should not stand up for yourself. I totally get you don't want to put a spotlight on yourself and the things you do. But why can't you say “Bitch, I work four jobs!”? She is going to walk all over you as long as you let her know by your behavior that it's ok for her to do so. She's used to dealing with people who are beat down and defeated and who won't push back. Me personally, I wouldn't let her keep getting away with it. As unfortunate as it is, sometimes we have to fight to be recognized as a human being. I understand the point you're trying to make, but at when does the damage she is doing to you and your family become more important than proving a point to yourself that she is never going to see or understand? Anyway……I'm proud as hell that you didn't march down there and choke her and her boss out….Coz I would have. Keep hanging in there! *HUGS*

  • Mzfuzz
    March 23, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    Edit for clarity: I just feel like there's a huge difference between shameless self promotion, and standing up for yourself. You have every right to stand up for yourself!

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 23, 2015 at 10:18 am

      Just not sure I have that many more fights left in me. I’m so worn out!! Mr. Attorney Man said he would try and handle it and I really hope that turns out to be true because I just need a rest :/


  • Evelyn
    March 23, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    all I can say is… people are stupid and or terribly disorganized. Maybe it's the caseworker causing all the problems for you and maybe you need a new one? Hoping it will get better for you.

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 23, 2015 at 10:56 am

      I tried to get a new caseworker, they wouldn’t let me change. Apparently it goes alphabetically and they aren’t willing to make an exception

  • Anonymous
    March 23, 2015 at 11:38 pm

    Can you please repost the mission links? Unfortunately there is an error in the code.

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 23, 2015 at 6:56 am

      Sorry about that, I don’t know what happened. I just fixed it 🙂 If that doesn’t work, google “not my shame to bear just show up” and it should pop up in the search results.

  • Anonymous
    March 24, 2015 at 12:06 am

    Amazing post. I agree with what Rose said. You should be able to report her to her supervisor. I'm sure they don't train people to have no empathy or speak to people that way. You'd think getting into that line of business they'd be more compassionate

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 23, 2015 at 6:56 am

      We did, it didn’t seem to help much. 🙁 Her boss called and apologized but then just sent me right back to her!!

  • CD
    March 24, 2015 at 12:51 am

    Since I'm currently dealing with a lot of the same legal situations you are, I've learned I have to get used to having people see only who I am on paper. But I've also learned there are people who work in those jobs that are just… not good people. That this woman actually said to you “Maybe if you got a better job…” is the type of thing you should definitely report.Obviously she doesn't know the stuff you really do… and that you definitely have a much more fulfilling life than she does.

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 23, 2015 at 10:16 am

      Yea really, doesn’t it seem like they are all pretty nasty? I figure they must just all be jaded and cynical at this point 🙁

  • Anonymous
    March 24, 2015 at 2:44 am

    YES. They hate having their crass comments and attitude recorded. You don't even have to get confrontational and threaten them with the press, just politely mention that your lawyer asked for a record of what you were told and when.

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 23, 2015 at 10:14 am

      I’ll have to see if my state allows for recordings, in some states it’s a felony! That’s pretty cool that they have apps for that (what don’t they have apps for these days?), I will definitely look into it!!

      Mr. Attorney Man let someone know what she had said, because her boss called me and apologized the next day. I think it was just a pat on the back though bc she is still just as bitchy and the boss doesn’t seem to care 🙁

  • afairytale84
    March 24, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    Bah. I had a whole response typed out and my computer crashed. Let's try this again.I did a few mission trips with church while I was in high school, did a 10-month AmeriCorps program after high school, and went on several service trips with my college. You are absolutely right – I really believe you get way more than you give when you do those sorts of things. I spent a week in the mountains in Kentucky and the Appalachian poverty is really horrifying. It's like a 3rd world country there. So very, very sad.One of my most memorable trips was the nearly 3 months I spent in Hawaii, on the island of Kauai. It's the smallest island, takes about 45 minutes to drive from one end to the other. We spent some time in a school and learned about 80% of the kids had never even been to the other side of the island, much less off the island. That was eye-opening. I never though of Hawaii as having a poverty issue, but it really, really does.That woman sounds like the caseworker my mother had when she was trying to get a restraining order against her now ex-husband. This wonderful gem of a woman kept saying things like, “Why didn't you leave him sooner?” and “Did you attempt to do anything to de-escalate the situation?” and “What did you do that made him so angry?” and my persona favorite (ha!), “Why did you call the police? Don't you know that calling the police on an angry man will only make him angrier?”This is a woman who handles cases for the DOMESTIC VIOLENCE center in our area. We found out later that she actually dated the guy for a while, lived with him for 2 years, and was still really good friends with him. Apparently she was convinced that my mother was making it all up and took his side. How she was never removed from my mother's case is beyond me.I am so sorry you're dealing with this. You're a human being – that should be enough. You shouldn't have to defend yourself or explain yourself or anything.*hugs*

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 26, 2015 at 3:17 am

      Isn’t Appalachia horrifying? I mean people really cannot possibly understand how 3rd world the living conditions are. I mean these are our own people and most people don’t even know they exist 🙁 That makes me SO sad!

      I only learned about the bad parts of Hawaii from watching Dog The Bounty Hunter. Really opened my eyes to the fact that it’s not entirely a resort style island!

      These caseworkers need to go on a group missions trip as some kind of workplace sensitivity training, they need it!!

      I ran into a few domestic abuse workers like that as well yet it never ceases to amaze me. I’m so sorry that happened to you!!

  • Anonymous
    March 25, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    She isn't being mean to you, the case worker, she is telling it like it is. You are a drain on society. No one owes you anything. If you don't like the position you are in, get out of it. Stop wasting her time and tax payer dollars because you as a grown woman can't take care of yourself. People like you disgust me. You don't want to feel disposable? Then make yourself worth something because in my eyes you are the problem, not her.

  • Steven Theiss
    March 25, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    Oh great! The Libertarian Objectivists have shown up! $50 says you even consider yourself a Christian.For the record (and this is coming from a Christian myself), you are a boil on the ass of humanity! Please do us all a favor and peddle your self-righteous, privileged, judgemental BS somewhere else! Eden has more worth in one of her toenail clippings than you possess in the entirety of your shriveled, soul-dead self!!

  • Zoddbrah
    March 25, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    Lol no need to respond to the troll Steven, just ignore it. I swear the melodramatic reactions are almost as dumb as the troll comments themselves…

  • Steven Theiss
    March 25, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    I think this would be an EXCELLENT opportunity for you to mind your own business.

  • Zoddbrah
    March 25, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    Calm down lol, you're a grown-ass man getting mad on the internet. Re-evaluate your life hahaha

  • Steven Theiss
    March 26, 2015 at 2:33 am

    The internet may be all LULZ to you, but in reality it is full of real people (like Eden) with real feelings.Hold on a sec and let me look around for some f**ks I can give about your opinion of my life choices.Nope. Fresh out.

  • Zoddbrah
    March 26, 2015 at 4:29 am

    Didn't get the memo where you became the spokesperson for Eden's feelings (because she can't speak for herself right?). Must have lost it in the sea of your unnecessarily melodramatic responses.This old fella is worse than the troll, who let gramps near the computer…

  • Zoddbrah
    March 26, 2015 at 4:54 am

    Have you considered an online petition/kickstarter campaign to bring more awareness to your case? Sometimes power lies in numbers. Also writing to a local councillor/senator might help if attorney man hasn't tried this already (has he?)

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 26, 2015 at 2:53 am

      I haven’t, although it’s not a bad idea. Mr. Attorney Man sent out some letters on Monday, so hopefully that gets us somewhere. If not I’m going to need all of you to start spreading the word! 😉

  • Steven Theiss
    March 26, 2015 at 5:09 am

    Dammit, I still can't seem to find a single f**k laying about that i could give you! Looked in the couch cushions and everything!

  • Zoddbrah
    March 26, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    -“I don't give a f**k”-replies, thereby proving he gives a f**klol. Dunno what you're trying to prove, but keep trying I guess.Re-evaluate your life, you're in your 50s and trolling/spamming the comments section of single mother's+nonprofit founder's blog. Sad old man. Nothing more needs to be said.

  • Anonymous
    March 26, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Really? Both of you are being incredibly ridiculous and disrespectful, Zoddbrah you more than Steven. Steven responded to defend Eden, you don't like it, go away. For someone handing out advice to “not bait the trolls” and that the “melodramatic meltdowns are as dumb as the comments” you certainly don't seem to be able to keep your mouth shut. Here the two of you are, throwing punches at each other on a blog that Eden has made clear should be a safe space, and the rest of us have to watch you two arguing as my email inbox fills up with your nasty replies to each other. You both need to shut up and should probably apologize to Eden for doing exactly what she always asks us not to do.

  • Steven Theiss
    March 26, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    You are correct in all respects. I already apologized to Eden this morning. I should have known better than to engage Zoddbrah like that. I offer my sincere apologies to you and others here who deserve a safe space. It won't happen again.

  • Chebet
    March 26, 2015 at 6:39 pm

    I hate hate hate people's attitude regarding social benefits!! And as a European, I will never ever understand America when it comes to this contradiction: A nation that always prides themselves in being Christian (and has to show that everywhere), and built upon Christian values, and swearing on the bible in court, and Jesus TV, and so on and on, while at the same time is so deeply unwilling to honour the most basic of Christian principles (in my eyes): love thy neighbour as you love yourself. To me that means always be there for the ones that are poorer than you, never refuse help to those in need, especially not the least of them and, very important, value what they are. On this continent this is the principle we base our social politics on. Why, why on earth is that so appalling to Americans?! Why is someone that claims social benefits to be blamed for that need?? Especially as a nation that houses such appalling poverty, that has a lot of homeless people that have nowhere to go, children without perspective, houses without water and electricity (almost unimaginable to me!). I cannot understand. I see that caseworker in my head going to church on Sundays claiming to be a good Christian and not even seeing her complete failure. Going to church doesn't make you Christian. Voicing the prayers doesn't make you a good person. Why do people not understand?? I really don't know what to say to that kind of story.

  • Zoddbrah
    March 26, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Apology accepted Steven, don't get so mad on the internet next time.

  • Anonymous
    March 26, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    Go home zoddbrah, it's time to take your medication

  • afairytale84
    March 26, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    I know a lot of “good Christians” who seem to make it their life's goal to make sure welfare is cut off to all, to condemn anyone and everyone who ever needs an ounce of help, and to say that anyone who is receiving any kind of benefits is a lazy, no-good, worthless less-than human. But they're Good Christians who go to church!It makes me so mad. I'm not religious. Borderline spiritual, but not religious. And sometimes I think it's all these “Good Christians” who are making annoyed with the religion in general (NOT YOU, Eden!). Now, there are real and true good Christians out there and I think they're the majority. Unfortunately, I think it's the minority that's the loudest and really good at getting their ideas into law.Stephen Colbert said it best, I think:”If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 25, 2015 at 3:14 am

      It’s funny to think that to outsiders the US seems so Christian, because within the country they are doing their best to remove God from everything. We don’t swear on the Bible, they took the 10 commandments out of courts, kids can no longer say “one nation under God” in our pledge of allegience and the list goes on!

      Yes though, there has been quite the uproar that our nation sends so much support to other countries while we let our own starve.

      Christianity is based in actions, not labels, and unfortunately many people don’t grasp that.

      • NotMyShametoBear
        March 28, 2015 at 4:29 am

        You know what you are right about the courthouse, I was thinking of the big to-do where they removed the ten commandments monument that was outside of a courthouse in Alabama, I forgot that they in-house courthouse one got voted down. I do however not personally know of any schools that still say the “under God” part of the pledge in school.

        For a nation founded on Christian principles, we also hold steadfast to the seperation of church and state which is why so many of the ties are being severed.

        Now get back to your homework

  • CD
    March 26, 2015 at 11:09 pm

    FYI Eden: The U.S. hasn't legally reversed any of those things. Though the Supreme Court only approved Van Orden v. Perry (which allowed the 10 commandments) with a 5-4 vote, so that was a close one.But I think there IS Christianity involved in this thought process. That whole Protestant/Puritan work ethic (“If you work hard, good things will come to you”) is basically what our country was founded on, and it's more of a lifestyle thing than just religion. Of course there are some more devout fundamentalist branches, who tend to be extremely hypocritical. I think they are the people think of as Christians because they loudly proclaim they are speaking for all Christians, which of course they don't.As you said Eden, anyone can label themselves, but showing by example is another thing!Okay, I'm done philosophizing, now back to homework. XD

  • Mzfuzz
    March 27, 2015 at 12:03 am

    Steven–Thanks for being the bigger person and stepping up to apologize. I really appreciate it.Zoddbrah–What are you, twelve??? You just made yourself look like a complete ass. Nobody likes someone who won't admit making a mistake.

  • Steven Theiss
    March 27, 2015 at 1:32 am

    As a Christian, I am a fervent supporter of the separation of Church and State. Although not specifically mentioned in the Constitution, it is a concept that was clearly important to many of the founding fathers (Jefferson, for sure). This separation is vital for the health of BOTH government and religion. As soon as religion becomes entwined with the State, it begins to morph into just another means of gaining and maintaining power over people. I think one of the worst things that ever happened to Christianity was when Constantine adopted it as the state religion of the Roman Empire. It's been corrupt ever since. This is what leads so many people to imagine that they can somehow be good and moral Christians, while simultaneously believing that people who need state-supported social benefits to survive are somehow bad/evil/lazy/disgusting. This is utter nonsense and rank hypocrisy!Don't even get me started on the subject of prayer in school! The LAST thing any parent should want is some overworked/underpaid teacher attempting to lead a bunch of students in prayer! What a fiasco that would be!Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now. 🙂

  • Jennifer Holter
    March 27, 2015 at 3:55 am

    I am proud to say that both son and daughter's schools say the whole pledge of allegiance every morning. Even the office staff stand to say it every day whether the kids are looking or not.

  • Chebet
    March 27, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    I am not saying that America seems Christian to me – it just claims to be A LOT more than over here (doesn't it say “In God We Trust” on coins and notes…???).I really don't want to start a discussion about Christianity and state, but be aware that churches' influence in most European countries was cut to almost non-existent in the middle ages. Since then there's been more political influence over churches than the other way round. @CD: That's probably true. 🙂 I don't live there and don't know the cultural basis, I still think that supporting the poor is a pretty basic thing in Christian morals.

  • CD
    March 27, 2015 at 11:34 pm

    It definitely is, with TRUE Christianity. Actually, a lot of the progressive movements from the early 20th century were pioneered by Christian groups.I also forgot a key part – this whole “capitalist Christianity” culture we live in is really a result of the US trying to set themselves in opposition to communism during the Cold War (it was under Eisenhower that they added “Under God” to the Pledge of Allegiance.) Since Russia is no longer communist, I really do wonder how much longer this is going to last.

    • NotMyShametoBear
      March 28, 2015 at 4:30 am

      You guys are like… way smarter than me.

Comments are closed here.

Connect With Me On Facebook!

Facebook Pagelike Widget

Things You May Have Missed: